Friday, November 7, 2008

Protests Target Mormon Church

In other news stories, there have been complaints by Mormons about yesterday's protests against them that they are entitled to exercise their rights to participate in the political process on issues that they're concerned about. That's true, of course. But if they do it in the same way as Rovian political hacks instead of Christians, they're entitled to be treated as such. ---"Dr. Primrose" in a comment on yesterday's post

CNN IReport has video of the Prop 8 protest at LA's Mormon Temple. Mike in Texas also has information up about a petition to revoke the Mormon Church's tax exemption.


Tough Love said...

The whine-a-thon continues, targeting ethnic (blacks) and and religious groups (Mormons) who do not have correct beliefs. Let's go get 'em!

Grow up and get on with your life. There are more important issues in the world than whether your society calls your relationship is a "civil union" or a "marriage". Define your own life.

Mike in Texas said...

Tough love, don't you think you should get up to speed a bit before you spout you hate? Or are you just going to be one of the crowd.

This has nothing to do with a name given to a relationship. It deals with all the taxpayer-funded benefits and protections GLBT people are paying for but not receiving. And, of course, there are other more subtle intangible things involved, but I suspect all of that would go way over your head.

Tough Love said...

Yes, more whining from Mike. Labeling any contrary opinion as "hate". Hate, hate, hate...they hate us because I don't get my taxpayer-funded benefits. Such a predictable and boring approach to life.

Grow up...and This is all way over the top, in a world with real problems, and not being denied "taxpayer-funded benefits and subtle intangible things".

Life is unfair. The whine-a-thon continues. Seriously, being gay today is NOTHING like being black in the pre-civil rights era. Gays are successful and incorporated in every aspect in life. And yet, because society widely believes a marriage is between a man and a woman, including President Obama, millions of dollars are wasted on an issue that in the balance of all of life's problems just is not that big of a deal.

In the meantime, let's teach those blacks and mormons a lesson!

I am an California...and this is embarrassing.

David said...

OK, I think old Tough "Love" here violates our commenting policy. Any, other site editors agree ? Please email me with your opinions...

In the meantime, Tough "Love," I will delete any, further comments of yours w/o warning. Go find somewhere else to spew this hateful nonsense.

Anonymous said...

I'm embarrassed by bigots, myself.

IF the Mormons can enjoy the free speech to deprive another group of constitutionally valid civil rights, then I can enjoy free speech to criticize them for their bigotry.

My solution? Invalidate ALL marriages. Civil unions for all couples, and leave marriage to the churches.

"Honey will you DP me?" DOesn't have quite the same ring....


David said...

Agree. I'd really like to see the State get religion out of this situation. Let any church / temple / synagogue offer some version of "Holy Matrimony" to only those they wish - but offer equal rights before the law via Civil Unions to any gay or straight couple which consists of consenting adults.

Mike in Texas said...

Tough Love, this is your lucky day. You're spouting more ignorant nonsense and I'm here to educate you.

The stereotypes of gay and lesbian citizens as an affluent population is promulgated by religious right political activists who oppose any legislation prohibiting employment discrimination based on sexual orientation and any other form of equal treatment under the law such as marriage equality. The proponents of discrimination against gay and lesbian citizens have misused marketing surveys of gay magazine readers to spread the lie that gay people are members of an affluent elite.

These lies are used to divert attention from the real problem of discrimination and to oppose equal protection under the law. The truth is that sexual orientation does not correlate to income, education or any other class-related characteristic. Gay and lesbian citizens are found in every type of workplace and in every community.

An independent study by the University of Maryland at College Park found that the gay and lesbian population is economically and socially diverse -- and disadvantaged by unfair job discrimination. No federal law protects Americans from being fired, refused work, paid less or even harassed in the workplace because of their perceived sexual orientation. *****The Study, "The Wage Effects of Sexual Orientation Discrimination" by
M. V. Lee Badgett, was published in the peer-reviewed journal, Industrial and Labor Relations Review, Vol. 48, No. 4 (July 1995).

The University of Maryland at College Park study found that gay men and lesbians actually earn less than their non-gay counterparts with similar education, training and occupations. Gay men earned 11 to 27 percent less, while lesbians earned five to 14 percent less.

Opponents of equal civil rights protections for gay and lesbian citizens often cite marketing surveys of gay magazine readers to spread a stereotype of gay people as affluent. This data, compiled by the marketing firm Overlooked Opinions, Inc., was deliberately misrepresented in testimony before a U.S. Senate Labor and Human Resources Committee hearing on the Employment Non -Discrimination Act (ENDA). ENDA would prohibit job discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

"This data is not of the gay community, it is for the readers of specific gay publications," said Jeffrey Vitale, president of Overlooked Opinions. "To compare these figures to the average individual income in the U.S. is ludicrous."

Anonymous said...

I agree with you, David.

I'd also take issue with the idea that somehow its okay for the gay community to be disadvantaged just beause we don't have it as bad as the African-American community. I don't think it's right to say there's a bar on suffering.

A black bishop (denomination unknown) in LA said, "Tough. We voted on it. Time for the gay community to suck it up."

I find it breathtaking, this idea that no one else deserves rights. Can you imagine MLK rolling in his grave?

In 2004, Coretta Scott King said, "A constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriages is a form of gay bashing and it would do nothing at all to protect traditional marriages."

dr.primrsel said...

I wanted to comment on the comment of Tough Love -- who claims to be from California -- that "Gays are successful and incorporated in every aspect in life."

Of course that isn't true. As an example, the California Court of Appeal decided a case less than a month ago (which I've mentioned before) entitled Donovan v. Poway Unified School District.

The plaintiffs, one boy and one girl, were students at Poway High School in San Diego County.

According to the court, this is what the boy (whose name was Ramelli) had to put up with:


In Ramelli's freshman and sophomore years, students frequently made anti-gay remarks directly to him or in his presence, using names such as "fag," "faggot," "queer," "homo" and "fudge packer." Ramelli heard these words used in the "halls, the quad, the classrooms, just about anywhere you go" on campus. He was offended by these slurs and they made him feel insecure at school. Toward the end of his freshman year, students threatened Ramelli in physical education class while he was changing his clothes because he was gay or perceived to be gay.

In the beginning of his sophomore year, Ramelli witnessed a student, Joseph S., whom he had met while attending Gay-Straight Alliance meetings on campus during his freshman year, being badly beaten on campus by another PHS student, presumably because he was gay. This student had previously spoken to Ramelli and others about the anti-gay peer harassment he was experiencing at PHS.

Ramelli described his junior year as "hell" because of the anti-gay peer harassment to which he was subjected at PHS. Because he felt the harassment "coming directly" at him "on a more continuous basis," Ramelli was scared at school. The harassment occurred "almost every single day," both inside and outside the classroom. Ramelli told several teachers and administrators, including Fisher and Giles, about the anti-gay harassment, but it did not stop.

In addition to the anti-gay language directed at him or witnessed by him "on a more continuous basis," during his junior year, Ramelli was shoved into the lockers while being told, "Watch out, you fucking faggot." The harassment also included being purposely tripped in the hall while called an anti-gay name; having his car vandalized while parked at PHS; finding a note left on his car in the PHS parking lot that read, "Keep your eyes to yourself, you fucking faggot," and "[f]aggots need to die. You fucking queer, watch your back!"; finding another note that had been slipped through a crack in his car window while it was parked at PHS, which read, "Fucking faggot, you think that window was an accident? I'm going to kick your fucking ass, faggot"; having two notes affixed to his back during school identifying him as being gay; having water thrown on him to make it look like he had urinated on himself; having food thrown at him while he walked on campus; and being spit on because he was a participant in a campus event called the "Day of Silence," which sought to call people's attention to the violence experienced by gay and lesbian students. Because of the ongoing harassment, Ramelli began to keep a log of incidents he witnessed or experienced on the PHS campus.

As a result of such harassment, Ramelli "cut" classes at school. He also became anxious and depressed, in light of the "name-calling" and "pushing and . . . shoving" from other students; he no longer enjoyed school. Ramelli saw no reason to "put [himself] through [the harassment] every day." Nonetheless, Ramelli intended to return to PHS for his senior year until he got sick and missed the first few weeks of school. He then enrolled in a home-study program offered by the District called "New Directions" to complete his senior year. He graduated from PHS in 2004.


The girl went through a similar ordeal.

The students and their parents repeatedly tried to get the high school to do something about this harrassment and the high school did nothing. One member of the administration had the same attitude as Tough Love -- he "advised [the boy] to 'brush it off' and be the 'bigger man,' since these were 'just high school kids.'"

The trial court jury found that both kids were subject to sexual orientation harrassment and that the high school was guilty of deliberate indifference to their plight. They awarded the kids damages of about $300,000 and the court awarded their attorney $420,000 in fees.

So, sorry, Tough Love, hatred against gay people is not over. But at least, despite the loss on the Prop. 8 battle, the haters are beginning to be held accountable.

Tobias Haller said...

Part of the problem with prejudice is that it tends to render its practitioners blind to the reality of the harm they cause.

Anonymous said...

Now, now, John, I know that you think you need to descend to their level of invective to get the point across but let's keep it decent.


David said...

Tough "Love," I warned you that any, further posts by you would be deleted - and they have been. Your hateful invective is not welcome here. Take it somewhere else.

I also deleted two responses to this, though it pained me to do so. Come on folks - let's keep it decent like IT asked. And please don't feed the trolls.

JCF said...

My eyes are hurting from the posts by Tough Hate that you have left standing, David. :-(


Does anyone know how one emails the President-Elect? I want him to make good on his ENDA signing *ASAP*. I can't imagine the pain of H8 diminishing until something like that is enacted.

it's margaret said...

I signed the petition. I will post this link.

As a native Californian, I am aghast and ashamed of my home state. I grieve.

Anonymous said...

It ain't over.

From the San Diego Union Trib:

Energized by a comeback win, conservative activists want to apply the same formula they used to outlaw same-sex marriage in California to prevent other states from recognizing gay unions and President-elect Barack Obama from expanding the rights of gays and lesbians....

The plan is to mobilize the same religious factions that joined forces in California to deter lawmakers from “taking on this divisive social issue while we are in the middle of a huge financial crisis,” Gallagher said.

Campaign operatives attribute their success to the churches, which served as voter registration centers, phone banks and volunteer recruitment hubs.


MarkBrunson said...




Only in the sense that the ignorant and intransigent have been "targeted."

God bless a country in which the minority can defend themselves, even against the majority, without having to take up arms.

Tough Love, indeed.

Weak Fear, more like.