tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post111424205603686286..comments2023-11-10T09:15:40.084-08:00Comments on The Friends of Jake: Growing ChurchDavidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10124314924693077453noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-47696658778839060572012-12-13T13:36:36.886-08:002012-12-13T13:36:36.886-08:00Hi David. :-)Hi David. :-)June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-27635087690558215932012-12-13T13:15:44.200-08:002012-12-13T13:15:44.200-08:00Thank you for sharing my article, and for the wond...Thank you for sharing my article, and for the wonderful conversation here! (And hello, Grandmere! Good to see you again!) Pastor Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02162493880648622424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-54121478427962116722012-12-11T21:17:20.481-08:002012-12-11T21:17:20.481-08:00"Being a Christian" doesn't make you..."Being a Christian" doesn't make you a better person (most evidence points to the contrary!).<br /><br />FOLLOWING CHRIST (Christ's <i>way</i>) makes you a better person. Sadly, this manner-of-life seems to be more common among <i>non</i>-Christians.<br /><br />[H.E., I think the Lutherans made a noble effort to RECLAIM the word "Evangelical" when they formed their (united) church 25 years ago: I just want to honor that. Beyond that, however, I think the word is inherently *good*. It's about GOOD News. But most Christians---paradigmatically, most "Evangelicals"---turn the message of Jesus into BAD News. :-( ]JCFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-26806076780647044802012-12-10T20:12:51.945-08:002012-12-10T20:12:51.945-08:00I think it's not that people are better, but i...I think it's not that people are better, but if they actually live up to their faith, they might TRY to be better.<br /><br />When I drive my wife's car, which has a big ol' "Episcopal Church Welcomes You!" sticker on the back, I'm aware of the need to "measure up" to that sticker. Wouldn't want to cut someone off and have him think 'piskies are selfish or mean.<br /><br />Likewise, when my car sported an Obama sticker, i made sure more than usual that I drove courteously -- so that I reflected well on that identity.<br /><br />(These day my own car just sports the cryptic HRC equals sign.)<br /><br /><br /><br />IThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09605163506396013904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-19952326086915211852012-12-10T19:42:48.666-08:002012-12-10T19:42:48.666-08:00What are you saying here: that being Christian mak...<i> What are you saying here: that being Christian makes you a better person?</i><br /><br />You answered the question before you gave me a chance H.E. Have you already made up your mind about what my answer will be? Shall I trouble myself to answer? Well, I will anyway.<br /><br />I don't think I'm a better person than anyone else. Not at all. Not one bit. What I <i>do</i> think is that I am a better person than I would be if I had no faith. As Evelyn Waugh said, "I'd hardly even be a human being." :-) Is that helpful?June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-39576204994111043542012-12-10T19:26:38.782-08:002012-12-10T19:26:38.782-08:00Grandmere Mimi, I wouldn't be in any way affec...Grandmere Mimi, I wouldn't be in any way affected one way or the other if more Christians "lived the Gospel." What are you saying here: that being Christian makes you a better person? If so, it follows that people who aren't Christians are ceteris paribus less good. And I find that both impossible to believe and a little bigoted. Face it: religious belief doesn't in the aggregate make people better.<br /><br />And why should people be more attracted to getting inside the church building if the people inside were morally better? Who cares? I'm not attracted to Nordstrom's because of the virtue of their shoppers. Who knows and who cares? I'm interested in what the church provides--not the moral character of the customers, who are of absolutely no interest to me.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12587322265256780784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-62280329532830888532012-12-10T19:18:26.417-08:002012-12-10T19:18:26.417-08:00OK, JCF, but you know and I know that when America...OK, JCF, but you know and I know that when Americans say "evangelical" they don't mean ELCA ;-)<br /><br />And IT, why not EVERY week? Why be stingy? Agreed some passers by might want more, but all I every wanted to get me in the door was elaborate ceremony.I joined the church to get that, to get the ticket to participate in liturgy. And for no other reason. I agree though, getting in the door was scary. But to make that less scary, make it possible for people to get in without being noticed and participate without making personal contact.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12587322265256780784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-64010849619087257692012-12-10T18:30:54.413-08:002012-12-10T18:30:54.413-08:00"I think a procession in the streets would be..."I think a procession in the streets would be nothing more than just so much exotic street theater."<br /><br />That's a bad thing?<br /><br />I think "The World" would laugh at us . . . and I *welcome* that laughter. If you think of the classic Corpus Christi procession (priest carrying monstrance), could anything be more ridiculous? <br /><br />...but that's why I love them so much! As the "Chick Tract" likes to say, it IS the "Jesus Cookie" (and as IT likes to say, we ARE "vampires", what w/ the Blood-drinking). <br /><br />We should embrace our ridiculousness---our "Holy Fool"-ishness. Load up the clown-car, we got ourselves a circus! Y'all join in!JCFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-42666624870188220902012-12-10T13:29:52.187-08:002012-12-10T13:29:52.187-08:00Counterlight, I agree. If more Christians lived t...Counterlight, I agree. If more Christians lived the Gospel outside the church building, more people might be attracted to what goes on inside the church building.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-39701028643745033632012-12-10T13:25:46.750-08:002012-12-10T13:25:46.750-08:00I think a procession in the streets would be nothi...I think a procession in the streets would be nothing more than just so much exotic street theater. I think the world beyond the church door lives by the motto of the great state of Missouri when it comes to all this selfless love business that we always preach, "Show Me!"Counterlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14345956180434795401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-82774340972195656472012-12-10T00:50:42.039-08:002012-12-10T00:50:42.039-08:00Nope, H.E., I'm a Yank.
But I'm also form...Nope, H.E., I'm a Yank.<br /><br />But I'm also formed ecumenically, esp by my brothers & sisters in the <i>Evangelical</i> Lutheran Church in America.JCFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-89547476433253716562012-12-09T20:58:27.790-08:002012-12-09T20:58:27.790-08:00HE, I think there's something to that, just be...HE, I think there's something to that, just because things Behind Closed Doors are intimidating. Our parish has processions several times a year: <br /><br />Palm Sunday<br />St George's Day<br />Blessing of the Animals<br />and of course<br />a very active presence at Pride.<br /><br />But there does need to be more to tell the passer by on a Friday aftenoon why he might want to come back on Sunday.<br /><br />IThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09605163506396013904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-8393370017417036232012-12-09T20:19:24.220-08:002012-12-09T20:19:24.220-08:00JCF, you must be a Brit. Hereabouts we don't t...JCF, you must be a Brit. Hereabouts we don't think of Evangelicals as Happy-Clappy style Anglicans--we mean conservative non-mainline Protestants, typically members of the Religious Right.<br /><br />But what about my idea of weekly processions in the streets? Why not? I'm serious: the idea is to display elaborate, exotic ceremonies publicly.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12587322265256780784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-13200274053155625192012-12-09T16:07:24.722-08:002012-12-09T16:07:24.722-08:00Like the banner idea, H.E., but in my version, it ...Like the banner idea, H.E., but in my version, it would just say "We are not homophobes, ALL are welcome and EQUAL in the eyes of God. No exceptions."<br /><br />As far as "Evangelical" goes: while some would see that as "= homophobe", others might see it as "= Happy-Clappy". While that would never be MY cuppa, I continue to see Anglicanism as having room for different kinds of "church" (aka "High&Crazy, Low&Lazy, Broad&Hazy"). As long as every kind is inclusive of God-given human diversity!JCFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-419171224794882872012-12-09T10:33:56.693-08:002012-12-09T10:33:56.693-08:00We have a couple who don't care for the preach...We have a couple who don't care for the preacher - talks too long - and don't like the music but they come pretty regularly because they like the people.PseudoPiskiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12070541512355253553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-84573899508656850242012-12-09T09:16:02.199-08:002012-12-09T09:16:02.199-08:00Hang a large rainbow flag on the church and post a...Hang a large rainbow flag on the church and post a sign saying: "All Welcome: we are NOT Evangelicals."<br /><br />Have elaborate processions in the street--the busiest street possible--every Sunday in fancy dress, singing and swinging incense. "Join us: we have fun!"Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12587322265256780784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-17139831470851006302012-12-08T16:29:02.110-08:002012-12-08T16:29:02.110-08:00I'm afraid that the problem is just as the art...I'm afraid that the problem is just as the article says, that so many Christians are just awful people. As a regular church-goer, even I think so.Counterlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14345956180434795401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-54468851718050166942012-12-08T12:05:28.043-08:002012-12-08T12:05:28.043-08:00IT, thanks for the link to the article, which is e...IT, thanks for the link to the article, which is excellent. You are a fine evangelist for the Episcopal Church, far better than I and many Christians I know.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.com