tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post443445806056483365..comments2023-11-10T09:15:40.084-08:00Comments on The Friends of Jake: Secular ChristiansDavidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10124314924693077453noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-59932226692789116492012-11-17T08:38:03.154-08:002012-11-17T08:38:03.154-08:00Hmmm. When I joined the church, in college long ag...Hmmm. When I joined the church, in college long ago, I said to myself that I'd "bracket the God question." And I suppose I would still count as an agnostic to the extent that I think theological claims are highly speculative. And I'm certain that no Evangelical Christian would count me as a religious believer.<br /><br />One thing I wonder though, which bothered me when I joined: does secular Christianity mean that one can't join the Church? In the case of Judaism, since belonging is, as it were, disjunctive--either you believe OR (inclusive or) you're ethnically connected--leaves open the possibility for non-believing belonging. But how would this work for Christianity?<br /><br />My fear was that it was a disjunctive thing so that it wasn't allowed to be a culture Christian unless one was brought up or descended from Christians. I know it's a kind of strange worry. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12587322265256780784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-58764482550693508132012-11-16T06:37:17.353-08:002012-11-16T06:37:17.353-08:00I think of myself as an agnostic Christian.
In som...I think of myself as an agnostic Christian.<br />In some circles, that doesn't count as Christian at all, and in others, it's too Christian for comfort.Counterlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14345956180434795401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-10422272602997605502012-11-15T13:52:14.862-08:002012-11-15T13:52:14.862-08:00hmmmmm....
Well, the Church has always said that ...hmmmmm....<br /><br />Well, the Church has always said that faith is a gift of the Spirit --so, faith is one of the charisms meant to be shared for the benefit of all... So, yes, there can be Christians who have no faith at all, but carry other gifts of the Spirit for the benefit of all.<br /><br />In the greatest, widest sense of the word, I am not a 'theistic' Christian myself. Because of the great gift of the Incarnation, "God" has pitched a tent among us --"God" is with us --there is no "God" out there --so, I suppose there might be some who would call me atheistic. Oh well....<br /><br />The word that leapt off the page at me, and is bugging me is "supernatural" --I think it is utterly false to say that Christianity has "supernatural" origins --Jesus had a bellybutton... nothing supernatural about that. The idea of a "supernatural" faith is a misapprehension and literalization of "Son of God" --and denies the other 'titles' given such as "Son of Man" etc.... but, perhaps I digress.... sigh...<br /><br />Any way --living as I do in another culture where the distinction between secular and what might best be described as spiritual --the distinction between the two is non-existant. And the expressions of Christianity are decidedly different. So, to describe one's self as a cultural Christian implies, from my vantage point, a universal Christian culture --and there isn't one --so it is kinda moot. (Either that, or one trips in to a danger zone of cultural imperialism?)<br /><br />As to being a secular Christian.... well, the only reason for the Church to exist is to love the world (in the ancient lingo of the Church) --or, I guess, in contemporary language --all that is secular --so, in that regard --I guess/hope I am a secular Christian.<br /><br />Just some thoughts....it's margarethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13577280471100732619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-39126925004020754742012-11-13T21:41:14.187-08:002012-11-13T21:41:14.187-08:00Sorry, but I just have to say that I was talking a...Sorry, but I just have to say that I was talking about this, in these very terms, <i>years</i> ago! MarkBrunsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16971990948866488080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-80636618977254963812012-11-13T21:21:21.215-08:002012-11-13T21:21:21.215-08:00I wouldn't say all 'professional atheists&...I wouldn't say all 'professional atheists' are against Stedman. Certainly Hemant Mehta has been supportive.<br /><br />btw Richard Dawkins has described himself as a 'cultural Christian' so the term is quite broad. I would describe myself as one also (though I'm inclined to sing the hymns much to the regret of others near me). Erphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18037406583478493064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-6206211385319871962012-11-13T14:50:00.860-08:002012-11-13T14:50:00.860-08:00I don't take Communion, and while I enjoy the ...<i>I don't take Communion, and while I enjoy the service, generally I don't say the words or <b>sing the hymns</b>.</i><br /><br />Hmmm. I rather think music is an "Art for Art's Sake" kind of thing. I'm fairly certain I've sung non-Christian sacred music at some point in my life (well, besides singing along w/ George Harrison on "My Sweet Lord": his lord was Krishna, after all! ;-) For that matter, I've also sung along w/ John Lennon on "Imagine": an atheist anthem if ever there was one)<br /><br />***<br /><br />I know I ride your case on this, IT, but I have so much trouble w/ you describing yourself as a "non-believer". Yes, I get it: you reject the Nicene Creed. Probably *most* Episcopalians do, on some points, at some times? [I always inclusify it when I profess it: I REFUSE to call the Holy Spirit "He"!]<br /><br />But there is SO much more to "believing" than the Creed. Probably the *most important* parts of Faith are (almost by definition) <i>ineffable</i>. Think of the apophatic tradition, wherein Faith is approached (NOT defined!) by what one does NOT believe [because of the ever-present danger that faith, defined, is mere idolatry. That the words and concepts surround "God" are but idols, fashioned for puny/selfish human intelligence to MANIPULATE, well, other humans, mainly.]<br /><br />Well, that's enough JCF blather for now.JCFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-65804518985193032252012-11-13T13:28:56.048-08:002012-11-13T13:28:56.048-08:00I agree with much of what you have written and I&#...I agree with much of what you have written and I'm sure the history of atheist Christians goes much further back than we usually realise.<br /><br />However, the use of 'secular' to describe atheist Christians cannot be right. 'Secular' does not mean atheist, secular society grew out of the struggle between dissenting Christian traditions and the established church in Britain. It is one of the foundations of modern ecumenism. If atheist Christians are ever accepted by theistic Christians, all of them would be secular.Chris Sissonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17426078801713097932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-35963363193818426872012-11-13T13:16:35.748-08:002012-11-13T13:16:35.748-08:00"Secular Christian" already describes mo..."Secular Christian" already describes most of the people who go to church already.Adam Woodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11287643384473810749noreply@blogger.com