tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post2040123618047680174..comments2023-11-10T09:15:40.084-08:00Comments on The Friends of Jake: On #NALTs, kneejerk responses, and African BishopsDavidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10124314924693077453noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-741476678893094132013-09-12T10:09:06.702-07:002013-09-12T10:09:06.702-07:008th day: EXACTLY!!! I agree.8th day: EXACTLY!!! I agree.IThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09605163506396013904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-69787874872599170992013-09-12T07:15:19.747-07:002013-09-12T07:15:19.747-07:00For the record, I did not disparage any individual...For the record, I did not disparage any individual for participating in NALT. I only wanted to bring up that it is important to question and understand the motives of people who are doing this.<br /><br />But the more I thought about it, the more I see some value to it. My personal crusade is against the use of labels. So when people who use labels, such as Christian, realize that that label has garnered significant negative connotations, and start saying "I'm not like that" it is basically saying "I am not what you perceive that label to be." <br /><br />Maybe, hopefully, people will begin to realize how destructive and dividing using labels can be. Then we can move from lazy stereotypes to actually getting to know people for the whole person they are.<br /><br /> 8thdayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17139355263412766126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-91273799412713633342013-09-09T12:09:31.146-07:002013-09-09T12:09:31.146-07:00I, for one, really don't care for the *name* &...I, for one, really don't care for the *name* "NALT" (Not All Like That). I think it's defensive, and pre-emptively accepts a minority status among all (claiming the title) Christians. And frankly, I think LGBT/straight ally Christians should <i>name themselves</i>, and not let (at least at times, anti-theist) Dan Savage do so.<br /><br />...which is not to speak against the project, per se (I haven't looked at the videos, to see how it's shaping up).<br /><br />***<br /><br />IT, I share your concerns around the <i>process</i> of Tengatenga's appointment/rescinding. This could have been done in At The Start, w/ "all due diligence", and then not have this rescindment conflagration (by which NO ONE benefits).<br /><br />I *do* know that if we disqualified anyone (over 30) who, as an adult, EVER took a less-than-LGBT-affirming position, we probably WOULD be ruling out the majority (leaving ourselves in a "NALT" minority).<br /><br />Reality: perhaps MOST people around the world have NEVER MET an OUT LGBT person. It's actually <i>knowing</i> LGBTs which makes such a dramatic <i>transformation</i> in attitudes. If, say, an African bishop has only met same in the past couple of years, I'm not inclined to automatically disqualify him for what he did BEFORE he knew out LGBT people.JCFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14516376500318551838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-32747135252976462902013-09-09T11:41:13.754-07:002013-09-09T11:41:13.754-07:00i think the TengaTenga case is much more ambiguous...i think the TengaTenga case is much more ambiguous and problematic. It may be that this was a good decision, but I don't like offers being made and then rescinded-- they should have done their homework. It's the flip side of the flap at the (Roman Catholic) University of San Diego which rescinded an offer to a prominent theologian because she had written a letter that stated that there was no binding Catholic doctrine regarding civil marriage equality. (<a href="http://home.sandiego.edu/~baber/trouble/clarifications.html" rel="nofollow">More here</a>.) In that case, it was the liberals whose ox was gored.<br /><br />But I will take issue with 8th Day's statement that this is just burnishing some sort of street cred. For example, the REv. Susan Russell has been a passionate activist for equality both in and out of her church. She has walked the walk. And of course, she is herself gay. <br /><br />IMHO, the LGBT folks who bolster the right-wing meme that this can be reduced to LGBT vs Christian are part of the problem. <br /><br />So I will continue to applaud the efforts of NALT to break that meme. IThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09605163506396013904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-59369314600997970652013-09-09T11:25:56.180-07:002013-09-09T11:25:56.180-07:00I am not a fan of the NALT. Mostly because I rely...I am not a fan of the NALT. Mostly because I rely more heavily on people’s actions rather than their words. I know far too many people who say they are allies, fly the rainbow flag, etc. because they perceive it to be the “cool” thing to do. They may even believe it is the right thing to do. But when all is stripped away, they are still using gay stereotypes, still singling out gay folks in their congregations, still using heterosexist language and basically using gays to up their progressive street cred. <br /><br />Further I find efforts like NALT to be quite narcissistic and condescending. There is a good article which says it better than I ever could here:<br /><br />http://hereincoherent.tumblr.com/post/53205271669/were-not-all-like-that<br /><br /><br />Personally, I agree with the one commenter you quote - I do not need some religious person’s acceptance of my being. In fact, I find the offer of acceptance rather condescending in and of itself. And why anyone would want to belong to a club where you are always having to apologize for the conduct of your fellow members, I do not understand. But on the other hand, if a gay person finds some kind of solace in these videos, who I am to say they’re wrong? Everyone comes at it from different life experiences. Live and let live.<br /><br />What I would like to see is a collection of videos with gays saying that they forgive Christians for all the hate, violence and oppression they have caused, and continue to cause. Now that would be interesting.8thdayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17139355263412766126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8238382886103256219.post-58238024932635144082013-09-07T01:28:26.887-07:002013-09-07T01:28:26.887-07:00"LGBTQ Christian community"? "Amer..."LGBTQ Christian community"? "American Christian liberalism"?<br /><br />I think that NALT is being attacked/Bp Tengatenga was denied his appointment due to the hostile actions of secular <i>anti-theist</i> types. To them, there's nothing Christians can say, and little they can do---not compared to just going extinct (or all "converting" to anti-theism ourselves).<br /><br />What I most resent from them, is the implication that I'm somehow "less gay" than they are, because I believe that <b>God made me queer</b> (instead of just, I suppose, random genetic mutations). I'm just tired of accusations and attitude...JCFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14516376500318551838noreply@blogger.com